On September 11, 2001, exactly two decades ago, a drama and a planetary event unfolded across the Atlantic. Television was on throughout France. A historic attack on the United States that was attacked for the first time on its territory. We discussed the memory and consequences of these attacks with sociologist Jean Viard.
franceinfo: Anyone old enough to understand at the time has a pretty clear memory. So it’s a collective trauma for much of the world, Jean Viard?
Jean Viard: Yeah, it was so amazing that we all remembered what we were doing at the time. I got a text message from someone who lived in another tower in New York. I was in front of my TV, etc. We all remember the moment because it’s so unimaginable and, besides, it’s extremely cinematic. Planes crashing into towers. It was almost unbelievable, so cinematic.
What would you say today to a young Frenchwoman and a 20-year-old Frenchman who did not live at the time we fell into?
Carries the past. What strikes me, for example, with the Taliban, is that one of their big problems is to dress exactly like the prophet 700 years ago. Same pants, same turban. Basically, as if the past is equal to the present. But that’s not just for the Taliban.
So I guess what to say to a young person is: humanity’s real battle is for global warming. But, obviously, there are people who have been so traumatized by the history of globalization carried by the great Western countries that, in fact, we must articulate the two. At the moment, we’re not doing very well.
Would you say we’ve changed the paradigm a bit in 20 years? Today, it is said that we have moved to the fight against global warming, for more biodiversity. At the time, after these attacks, there was this famous “axes of evil “ that we had to fight. Was this the beginning of the 21st century?
Yes, but it’s still there, it simply follows successive phases. These attacks were only 19 people (who perpetrated them). And Bin Laden, at the time, was a few hundred people. Today what’s happening is that it’s spreading, it’s a huge rhizome, it’s like a cancer metastasis. There are people everywhere who are ready, alone, with a knife, to attack a policeman.
We are witnessing a diffusion of extremely reactionary and conservative values, but which are also based on old historical sufferings. And after all that, are we going to make a common fight against global warming? This is the gamble and it will be difficult. It’s a war that will last a long time. I believe in telling how it is.
You spoke of the amazement at the time of all the French and all the people who looked at these images. There was this feeling of living a moment in history…
It’s part of history, also because it’s the only time the United States has been attacked on its territory, it never happened to them. God knows if they took the war out of their territory. It was unimaginable, more than for us, we were invaded several times, and not so long ago.
It is a historic landmark, perhaps also the end of a US position in the world, even though it remains an immense power, etc. And so, we must say one thing: for 20 years, they invested about $8,000 billion in the war on terrorism. They lost about 7,000 soldiers and 8,000 auxiliaries, they killed I don’t know how many people. And meanwhile, the Chinese invested in economic development. So, today, they’re going back to issues of economic competition, because if not, maybe they’re being outdone.
The consequences of these attacks on the life of the French in our country, all safety rules were changed, especially for travel. But what, in your opinion, were the fundamental consequences for French society?
Not only that. We greatly develop security services. Police intelligence networks have increased by 2,000, I believe. We are entering a surveillance society. I believe we cannot do it any other way. I am not reporting this. But that poses a real problem, because it will be very difficult to get out of it. So there’s this dimension, which can also explain certain reactions, especially people in front of Covid. They are under the impression that they are being controlled from all sides, and this is true.
And on the other hand, I’m concerned that we can no longer make speeches calling for greater respect for the Muslim community. We still have the feeling that it is very difficult to fight to better integrate young Muslims in this country.
However, somewhere, the exact opposite must be done. Large mosques should be built in Marseille, where there are 200,000 Muslims and there is no large symbolic mosque. Cultural centers must be built and policies favored in the neighborhoods, precisely so that young French people of Muslim origin do not feel attracted by this revolt. But it is difficult to sell to populations. I think at the moment our “common” has weakened a bit.
